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The Distruction of Democracy: Venezuala
Tags: distruction  democracy  venezuala 
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Post: 42599157_31 created on Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:19 pmPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:19 pm
"BlueCollarJoe"
"Magus200"
"BlueCollarJoe"
"O-Karina"
"Magus200"
I dream of living in Iran and Saudi Arabia too with there oil prices. Right....

If you still think the jury is out then you are just another socialist fool. Is the jury still out for Fidel too?


There are many kind of Socialisms. And Fidel's socialism isn't Chavez's socialism.

I think you are the fool, who just never opened a book to learn about "Socialism".


Socialism is the battle cry of those who are incapable of doing it for themselves so they ask the government to take from those that can and do and give it to them, much like Venezuala did.
Ultimate theft.

With the $$ Chavez is making right now the idea of socialism is stupidity to the max. They can easily become a 1st gen nation with the income there making, it would take years and many new projects but it can be done. When the price of oil starts going down and all that income is gone Venezuela will be worst off then before.
This guy is "tryng" to fight corruption and is pushing for socialism, that's like you tryng not to get high while smoking pot.


And he's taken how many private businesses and simply stolen them for the 'benefit of the country' and screwed the owners out of years of effort and millions of dollars?
The entire income, and the sources it is coming from is stolen.

True but the oil revenues alone were enough to allow him to buy off other countries debts and supply free oil to Cuba. He then resorted to nationalizing banks.
 
     
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Post: 42599157_32 created on Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:25 pmPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:25 pm
 
"Magus200"
"BlueCollarJoe"
"Magus200"
"BlueCollarJoe"
"O-Karina"
"Magus200"
I dream of living in Iran and Saudi Arabia too with there oil prices. Right....

If you still think the jury is out then you are just another socialist fool. Is the jury still out for Fidel too?


There are many kind of Socialisms. And Fidel's socialism isn't Chavez's socialism.

I think you are the fool, who just never opened a book to learn about "Socialism".


Socialism is the battle cry of those who are incapable of doing it for themselves so they ask the government to take from those that can and do and give it to them, much like Venezuala did.
Ultimate theft.

With the $$ Chavez is making right now the idea of socialism is stupidity to the max. They can easily become a 1st gen nation with the income there making, it would take years and many new projects but it can be done. When the price of oil starts going down and all that income is gone Venezuela will be worst off then before.
This guy is "tryng" to fight corruption and is pushing for socialism, that's like you tryng not to get high while smoking pot.


And he's taken how many private businesses and simply stolen them for the 'benefit of the country' and screwed the owners out of years of effort and millions of dollars?
The entire income, and the sources it is coming from is stolen.

True but the oil revenues alone were enough to allow him to buy off other countries debts and supply free oil to Cuba. He then resorted to nationalizing banks.


So you're justifying theft.
     


Election year. The fearmongering, the paranoia, the whackjobs coming out of the woodwork. Smells like...fried hippie.

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Post: 42599157_33 created on Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:34 pmPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:34 pm
"BlueCollarJoe"
"Magus200"
"BlueCollarJoe"
"Magus200"
"BlueCollarJoe"


Socialism is the battle cry of those who are incapable of doing it for themselves so they ask the government to take from those that can and do and give it to them, much like Venezuala did.
Ultimate theft.

With the $$ Chavez is making right now the idea of socialism is stupidity to the max. They can easily become a 1st gen nation with the income there making, it would take years and many new projects but it can be done. When the price of oil starts going down and all that income is gone Venezuela will be worst off then before.
This guy is "tryng" to fight corruption and is pushing for socialism, that's like you tryng not to get high while smoking pot.


And he's taken how many private businesses and simply stolen them for the 'benefit of the country' and screwed the owners out of years of effort and millions of dollars?
The entire income, and the sources it is coming from is stolen.

True but the oil revenues alone were enough to allow him to buy off other countries debts and supply free oil to Cuba. He then resorted to nationalizing banks.


So you're justifying theft.
Robin Hood is still a popular figure you know
 
     
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Post: 42599157_34 created on Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:54 pmPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:54 pm
 
"BlueCollarJoe"
"Magus200"
"BlueCollarJoe"
"Magus200"
"BlueCollarJoe"


Socialism is the battle cry of those who are incapable of doing it for themselves so they ask the government to take from those that can and do and give it to them, much like Venezuala did.
Ultimate theft.

With the $$ Chavez is making right now the idea of socialism is stupidity to the max. They can easily become a 1st gen nation with the income there making, it would take years and many new projects but it can be done. When the price of oil starts going down and all that income is gone Venezuela will be worst off then before.
This guy is "tryng" to fight corruption and is pushing for socialism, that's like you tryng not to get high while smoking pot.


And he's taken how many private businesses and simply stolen them for the 'benefit of the country' and screwed the owners out of years of effort and millions of dollars?
The entire income, and the sources it is coming from is stolen.

True but the oil revenues alone were enough to allow him to buy off other countries debts and supply free oil to Cuba. He then resorted to nationalizing banks.


So you're justifying theft.

How am I justifyng theft? I am talking about the time when Venezuelas one-third of G.D.P came from oil that was not nationalized. They still had a large substantial amount of income and it would have only becomed higher with the rising gas prices.
I have yet to support any of Chavez actions.
     
Click here and live!
Stephen Colbert: "That’s not fair! Putin is nothing like Hilter, he knows judo!


Economic Left/Right: 0.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.54
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Post: 42599157_35 created on Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:19 amPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:19 am
Actually, Blue collar, you would be hard pressed to find an example of a situation when Chavez did not *pay* (in general market value) for the properties which were expropriated - with the exception the latifundia which were broken up by a law that forbade the laying idle of agricultural land (which was not laying idle for fragility concerns). Even when the oil reserves of Venezuela were nationalized, in general, firms couldn't fight on the grounds that they were expropriated at below market value.

I would also point out that the oil to Cuba isn't free - Cuba provides a wealth of health care, education, and food products to Venezuela instead of cash for oil. It's all outlined in their "peoples trade agreements" which are part of the ALBA trade pact masterminded by Chavez and Fidel Castro (members of ALBA include Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and many other nations are considering joining).

I would also point out that a major portion of Chavez's economic policy is making Venezuela less dependent on oil (because they too realize that the price is going to fall and can't be the foundation of their socialism). New growth is occurring primarily in industry and agriculture.

And again I point out that "buying other countries debt" is a way to control inflation which, in general, when one pursues socialism, is a major problem. It can also make a tidy sum of money because the bonds you purchase will draw interest. Chavez has also become famous for selling bonds and paying them off early to save money.
 
     
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Post: 42599157_36 created on Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:52 pmPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:52 pm
 
I ask, defenders of Chavez, those of you who call yourself socialists,

dude anyone who call chavez a socialist is an a** and knows nothing about socialism. chavez is a populist and thats it! a socialis would never send "cheap" oil to poor countries and then in the contract drwan up say that the said poor nation has to pay them back double the world rate over x amount of years.!!!!
     
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Post: 42599157_37 created on Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:02 amPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:02 am
"comrade_scott"
I ask, defenders of Chavez, those of you who call yourself socialists,

dude anyone who call chavez a socialist is an a** and knows nothing about socialism. chavez is a populist and thats it! a socialis would never send "cheap" oil to poor countries and then in the contract drwan up say that the said poor nation has to pay them back double the world rate over x amount of years.!!!!


Care to provide a reference to your claim? As far as I have seen all successful socialist, those who manage to come to power, are scam artists so Chavez being himself wouldn't suprize me.
 
     
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Post: 42599157_38 created on Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:25 amPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:25 am
 
Actually the oil is usually (for instance to nations in the Caribbean) provided for X amount of other goods and services over several years. It helps poorer cash strapped nations and props up some of their national industries which may be stressed by high oil prices.
     
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Post: 42599157_39 created on Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:30 amPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:30 am
"REDGallenger"
Actually the oil is usually (for instance to nations in the Caribbean) provided for X amount of other goods and services over several years. It helps poorer cash strapped nations and props up some of their national industries which may be stressed by high oil prices.


I'l make the same request, some link to reference please?
 
     
http://dragon-shifter.deviantart.com/

I have come to the conclusion that most if not all women who are fun to talk to are either crazy, taken, or gay.

-Thomas Fyreclaw

(If you agree or care to comment feel free to PM me)
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Post: 42599157_40 created on Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:32 amPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:32 am
 
the deal states we pay 65-70% of the cost if the price of oil stays below us200 once it passes it they recupe there losses and we start paying thm back (deal jamaica signed) we are "supposed" to be able to repay that because we spend the money on agricultural and social services. however as it stands oil will pass the 200$ mark and we in 2yrs time would not have a strong agro base or even a good social service base thus sending us into further turmoil

*by world rate i mean the rate when it started* which was 100 usd
     
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Post: 42599157_41 created on Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:18 amPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:18 am
i understand that situation better than all of you because i from a bolivarian country. chavez is mad i know that but his moves are good. just think in this: in venezuela are more poor people than rich people so the socialism its good for the most people, just like cuba. then who have money can do propaganda and publicity vs the chavez goberment. see? rich people (less) protest, poor people(more) conform. and maybe chavez is mad but have the reason about usa.
 
     
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